Specific Contributions of the Innovators of Our Generation

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Originally posted by Rudy_Ment:
Steve Gadd - Probably the biggest influence on drummers like vinnie, weckl, novak, and countless others in the last 2 decades. He's one of the only drummers who's chops are so insane yet are easily accessible. Almost anyone can figure out what Gadd is doing, at least, more easily than trying to figure out weckl and vinnie. In that respect, Gadd spawned zillions of clones. The ultimate compliment for him, I'm sure.

His biggest or most well known contribution IMO : paradiddle licks, and, making drum solo's more musical and rhythmical by mostly containing them in a structure of 4/4.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">There is no arguement here. Though I don't listen to Gadd on a regular basis, I have no choice but to subconciously thank his patterns, licks, and rhythms for loving Vinnie and Dave. (and the other thousands he's influenced)

Completely disagree on Virg not being fluid. Do not know where that comes from. His concepts and compositions might not be everyones BAG but the guy is extremely fluid, I have been five feet from him more than a few times and his playing is very consistent and precise and his control unbelievable. Maybe you mean his playing is too busy and over the top that I would understand. How I would love for some to see him backing up Tina Arena in a pop setting or hear him with Southern Sons I think he would SHOCK! people with his other musical sensibilities, no DOUBT.
He does what he does not because he has to because he WANTS to. It is not like he is CONFINED to what he does it is just his vision.

Dig

Sorry, Dig, but I still have to disagree on Virg. Tight.........yes. Technical.....undeniably. Precise......absolutely (from what I've seen and heard). Relaxed and fluid enough for any musical situation thrown at him?.....haven't seen it yet. I'm not saying it won't happen, but it hasn't thus far.

Hey Plaid, I get what you're sayin' with Vinnie. I just thought/think that from everything I've heard, his singles & doubles are just as fast or faster than everyone else's. Anyway, I definitely agree with what you're saying about his destiny with drums. Or maybe I don't... it's possible he was born to play guitar or sax, but chose drums instead - and that's why his feel is so far out there [img]wink.gif[/img]


As for Virgil, I've heard him outside Planet X and solos. I heard him play with CAB, and I dunno... he just feels too robotic to me - TO ME. You may love what he does, but I just can't into his style outside of the technical aspects.


And if there were any one drummer I'd love to sound/play like other than Vinnie, it would no doubt be Steve Gadd. I've heard crazier, faster, and more confusing, but he plays some insanely hip shit. I don't know if feel like Gadd and Colaiuta have is possible to be developed, but I know I don't have but maybe an ounce of it.

Well the best way to see it, well it is too SEE IT [img]tongue.gif[/img] I fortunately have seen it lucky me [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

Dig

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Originally posted by Digital Man:
Well the best way to see it, well it is too SEE IT [img]tongue.gif[/img] I fortunately have seen it lucky me [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

Dig

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I don't mean any disrespect towards your opinion, dig, and I don't think anyone else does either. It's very true that actually seeing someone live can prove to be an enlightening experience, but judging from MD97, and the CAB clips I've of Virg, I would never hire him for certain types of gigs. Robotic, as said above, is a very fitting term.

Well that is why one cannot make an determination of one based on one or 2 settings even though I have a different view of the CAB clips, what Virg is playing sounds very consistent and smooth to me does not sound uneven or rough at all, I do not put much stock into what he looks like. Some guy's do pay more attention to the look than the sound. His singles, doubles, flams combo's etc with his hands and his feet are very nice indeed.

But hey we all decipher things different. No problem. [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

Dig

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Originally posted by Digital Man:
Well that is why one cannot make an determination of one based on one or 2 settings even though I have a different view of the CAB clips, what Virg is playing sounds very consistent and smooth to me does not sound uneven or rough at all, I do not put much stock into what he looks like. Some guy's do pay more attention to the look than the sound. His singles, doubles, flams combo's etc with his hands and his feet are very nice indeed.

But hey we all decipher things different. No problem. [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

Dig

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I absolutely agree that the appearance of someone when they play can have a big influence on one's opinion of their playing, but a good pocket is FELT, and the admittedly very few pocket situations I've heard Virg play haven't grooved me like they should (in my opinion). Though there are TONS of examples of a great pocket, take a look at that DiCenso video clip where the cam is behind his kit to the lower left. Go to :38 seconds into it......THAT is a great pocket. Virg could NEVER (judging from what I've heard/seen) play that groove and make it move even CLOSE to what Dave does there. In my opinion, Virg "muscles" his sound too much at the cost of a really good feel. Again....just my opinion.....he's still one of the greats of our time.

If you get the chance buy and listen to Moonbabies or The Moon Is Falling to name a few.
Virg plays some of the most complex stuff to date and it SOUNDS and FEELS good and you have to not think of how he look's or forget the style of music and just hear the drumming for itself, you might hate the style of music, actually you might like The Moon Is Falling. Just a little recommendation.

Dig

Uh oh, looks like another thread with intense Virg discussions...I'll stand back and watch (read?).

there's only but one guy who threw everything upon it's head, and who caused Vinnie to adopt his style, and that's BC.

There's a thing about Tony and Cobham that differs from VC and Weckl and it's as if the kit was there to be commanded in a physical way by Tony and Billy, and with Dave and Vinnie, the kit has sorta won the day, in an ergonomic sense. Maybe a more practical sense.

What's more amazing to watch...Vinnie doing his stuff with a modicum of effort, seemingly, or Cobham playing that huge ass Fibes set and going up and down the toms with huge stick height and then throwing in crossovers that are impossible to replicate.

And I think Billy whad such a long history of playing straight ahead and other types of music that it helped him get inside the MO music and play stuff no one played before. That's maybe what I don't hear from Virg, a depth of musicality, maybe a subtelty, when you compare him to other great drummers.

I found the Bruford book with transcriptions of the bigs songs he played and the notes he played were wacko. When you think of weird beats, you think Bruford beats...it's always been that way for me...Neil copped his famous ride pattern from Bruford in KC...